Hi Skerries,

Just this weekend as I was playing around in the water, I decided that I would test the boat and see how far it would lean with the mast on, the sprit up alongside the mast in a brail position and dagger board in. As I entered the boat from the floating dock,( My weight is 157 lbs if that matters.) I fell into the boat toward the opposite side and it went over. (Needless to say, I did not test the lean gradually.)

Water entered the brailed sail and of course there was weight at the mast top. I got it up OK but the mast was like a clock pendulum. The boat just went over to the opposite side because of the weight at the top. It took two of us to stablize it and moved it to the shore to bail.

CONCLUSION: The boat was unstable to enter and bail with the weight at the top of the mast. (The water level in the boat was about an inch above the dagger board as previously mention in other articles.) Entering and exiting the boat in brail position could be tricky to say the least if there is weight at the mast top. If we were away from the shore and had the same problems, we would have to try releasing the brail or removing the mast before getting in.

The above statement is just some food for thoughts for Skerry people. Has anyone had the same experience and how did they handle it?

Nick

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Nick,

That's a good cautionary tale Nick. I have noticed that the boat is much tippier when the sail is brailed, but it never occurred to me that it would be even worse when the sail is brailed and wet. I also don't like how much windage there is up there. If you brail because you are stuck out in too much wind, then brailing still leaves a lot of surface for wind to act on, and when combined with the weight aloft, does also contribute to that sort of pendulum swinging motion you described.

It makes me think that a properly reefed sail (a capability I never bothered to add) would be much safer than a brailed sail when there is too much wind.

Much has been written about the desirability of an alternate rig for this boat, and I think this is one more issue to consider.

Bob,

Besides the sail being wet, approximately 3 gallons of water entered a pocket in the brailed sail could not drain out. This helped the pendulum motion of the boat. Any little action and the boat would go over. I did not try to re-enter. Two of us held the boat stable and walked it to the shore.

Nick

Nick,

Last year while purposely capsizing and practicing my recovery, I experimented with brailing the sail. During one session I capsized the boat with the sail unbrailed, then brailed it before righting. My sail did not pocket any water, but the results were about the same as you describe. I could not keep the boat righted long enough to bail it out with the sail brailed. I let her go back over, unbrailed the sail in the water, and then managed to get her righted, me aboard (162 lbs), and the water bailed out.

This was under benign conditions. I think there was about a 3 mph breeze and almost zero chop.

I am considering another modification to deal with a real capsize in difficult conditions. This would consist of enclosing the area around the mast between the underside of the partner and the top face of the step with plywood. I think that this would allow me to cut the downhall and withdraw the mast from the step and partner before righting the boat. With out this enclosure, I think the mast would jam as soon as the foot exited the step and the partner twisted against the mast.

the way I have my sheet belayed to the stern, the cast off mast, sail and sprit would act like a huge sea anchor at the stern which should point the boat down wind and minimizing wave-induced rolling while I am bailing out.

What I do next is still up in the air. I could cut the rig loose and row to shore if I have to. My oars are now secured in their stowed position with toggles so they will never again be lost in a capsize.

For what it's worth, I think my sail rig has a little lower CG than the standard CLC rig when brailed. My mast is more than a foot shorter, The sprit is at the same height as the CLC rig when brailed, there is no boom, and the foot of my sail is 9 inches lower than the CLC rig. When unbrailed, mine might be a little more top heavy.

David,

Thanks for sharing your test results and ideas. I should have tried to unbrail the sail when I was playing around and give it another try.

My first thoughts to resolve this problem was heavier commercial dagger board for ballast and lowering the mast to reduce the Pendulum motion.(I know that John H from CLC does not like the idea of shortening the mast for his technical reasons.)

As for my position in sailing, this is my fist experience and I will likely be a person that will not takes sailing too seriously because of my advanced age. I will likely look at the Skerry as a fun boat and try to learn all I can keeping it afloat, which may include shortening the mast.

Is there anyone out there that has shorten thier mast and still use CLC rigging system with boom and sprit? (David said his is shorter but does not have a boom.) If you have, how did it affect the boat performance? I believe it should be fine if the person like me is not interested in speed but safety. Or shortening the mast will not make much difference for safety? Any thoughts out there about shortening the mast.

Nick

Going boomless does affect performance significantly when sailing below a dead reach (going somewhat or directly downwind). I often install a collapsible boat hook as a sprit boom at these times. Going boomless simplifies brailing and opens up the center of the boat to passengers sitting or rowing on the center seat, but I do not think it improves safety at all. Sail handling with the boom of the standard CLC configuration or with my collapsible sprit boom is easier and requires less attention. Without a boom, sailing safely demands a little more attention to what is happening.

My experience with reefing is also mixed. When the wind is really ripping it is usually accompanied by big chop. Reefing reduces healing forces on the rig but also reduces forward power. Big chop slows the light-weight Skerry quite a bit, and often I find that the brailed sail does not have enough power to go anywhere upwind very fast (like home to safety). In rare situations where there is big wind and small chop (like right off a windward shore or on a very small lake), reefing works like a charm and the Skerry still moves along nicely. In big seas, a boom also helps keep the sail from deflating and popping open with each big swell.

I enjoy the way have my boat is rigged but nothing is without advantages and disadvantages.

Hope this helps,

David

Hello all,

I have built a skerry which I have named 'Islay', and recently came across this site. What an amazing wealth of information and thoughts. I wish I had found the site a good while ago. Anyway, here goes with my first post.

I launched Islay last summer in the UK, and have used her a lot for rowing. I am just completing the sailing kit now and have been reading with interest the comments on brailing as I have been considering possible methods for reducing sail at short notice if required.

My previous experience of the sprit rig has been in nutshell prams and a scaled down 12' swampscott dory (the boat that inspired me to build the skerry), all of which had boomless sprit sails. If safety is the issue, I have found the quickest and safest way to shorten sail is merely to scandalise it, i.e. remove the sprit. The boat will still sail nicely, and the centre of gravity is improved rather than compromised. It may look a bit messy leaving the loose area of sail blowing free, but the beauty of the sprit sail is its simplicity and it seems a shame to complicate it with elaborate reefing systems.

I acknowledge there are benefits of being able to reduce sail in a more semi-permanent manner. One option I had considered for reefing is a track for the snotter fairlead, and reefing eyes in the luff and leech. It would then be possible to place the sprit in a lower position and take in slabs in the sail, keeping the geometry round the peak correct. This could either be done with a halyard incorporated, or the throat of the sail simply tied lower prior to sailing if the winds are high. If sail needs shortening whilst sailing, scandalising would still be the preferred option.

Does anyone have any further thoughts, or have any experience of doing something similar?

I will post some photos of Islay soon, and look forward to sharing in this excellent forum with you all in due course.

I sail the Skerry with a boomless reefable sail. I agree with all that you say.

There are pictures here: http://get-outside.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/679608126/m/8...=118609526#118609526 of how my sail is reefed. It is similar to the way you describe but no track is necessary for the snotter fairlead.

Hi Nick ~ Sorry for your mishap, and many thanks to you and David for being our crash test dummies and having the thoughtfulness to share your experiences. It's what you don't know that can get you into trouble!
Would it have been possible to remove the sprit when the water filled the sail? Just thinking of what I might have tried had I been suddenly in that same situation...too much weight aloft. I am still trying mental gymnastics to figure out the best (safest) way to manage the brailing/reefing/scandalizing thing. Once winter clears, so will my brain since I will be able to gather first hand albeit wet information!!
Kyle and a confused but game AFLAC

David, Could you please give us a picture of haow you have your oars stowed. I've been sailing with the oars in their locks and have often wondered what would happen in the case of a capsize. Mike

quote:

Originally posted by David Bixby:
Nick,

Last year while purposely capsizing and practicing my recovery, I experimented with brailing the sail. During one session I capsized the boat with the sail unbrailed, then brailed it before righting. My sail did not pocket any water, but the results were about the same as you describe. I could not keep the boat righted long enough to bail it out with the sail brailed. I let her go back over, unbrailed the sail in the water, and then managed to get her righted, me aboard (162 lbs), and the water bailed out.

This was under benign conditions. I think there was about a 3 mph breeze and almost zero chop.

I am considering another modification to deal with a real capsize in difficult conditions. This would consist of enclosing the area around the mast between the underside of the partner and the top face of the step with plywood. I think that this would allow me to cut the downhall and withdraw the mast from the step and partner before righting the boat. With out this enclosure, I think the mast would jam as soon as the foot exited the step and the partner twisted against the mast.

the way I have my sheet belayed to the stern, the cast off mast, sail and sprit would act like a huge sea anchor at the stern which should point the boat down wind and minimizing wave-induced rolling while I am bailing out.

What I do next is still up in the air. I could cut the rig loose and row to shore if I have to. My oars are now secured in their stowed position with toggles so they will never again be lost in a capsize.

For what it's worth, I think my sail rig has a little lower CG than the standard CLC rig when brailed. My mast is more than a foot shorter, The sprit is at the same height as the CLC rig when brailed, there is no boom, and the foot of my sail is 9 inches lower than the CLC rig. When unbrailed, mine might be a little more top heavy.

Mike,

I'll post a picture when I get a chance. Linda and I are getting ready to do some spring break traveling this week, but sometime after I return I should be pulling Bonnie Dune out to do some spring cleaning and maintenance. I'll be sure to get some good pictures then.

Until then, this might help.
Imagine a loop of line running through the hole in the forward seat top (just up and to the right of that roll of tape) and around the loom of the oar. A bungee would work as well, but I am using toggles.

I also have a little keeper line that runs from the inboard (toward my hand when I am rowing) end of the leather to the neck of the oar ring so that the oar cannot slide aft when it is stowed as shown. These keepers I leave in place all the time so that the oar ring cannot slide down the loom and ding the blade.

To unstow the oar, I remove the toggle, lift the oar ring out of the oar lock, maneuver the blade aft and over the side, then replace the oar ring in the oar lock.